Early Black Widow Tokai Electric Guitar
- Thread starter Sigmania
- Start date
Help Support Tokai Forum:
Attachments
Attachments
Last edited:
Jimi Hendrix estate sues guitar shop for possession of a vintage Hendrix instrument
Tuscon, AZ music store Rainbow Guitars has come to possess a very special item: a Black Widow guitar, an example of the only guitar model ever offered by the Acoustic Control Corporation, a company far better known for amps. This one was a rare left-handed model, and to ice that cake, it was once owned by Jimi Hendrix.
The alleged provenance is this: the guitar was given by Hendrix to his adopted sister Janie, who married Earth, Wind and Fire/Commodores guitarist Sheldon Reynolds. Hendrix either gave Reynolds the instrument, or he obtained it in their divorce settlement (this is unclear and online sources differ). Reynolds sold the guitar to one Brian Patterson—named by some sources as a “business partner” of Reynolds’—who in turn sold the instrument to Rainbow’s Harvey Moltz.
There’s a missing piece to that provenance claim—before selling the instrument to Moltz, Patterson endeavored to sell the instrument through Julien’s Auctions of Beverly Hills, CA, which provoked a lawsuit last year by Experience Hendrix, the business entity run by Hendrix’s family in an endeavor to keep control of the guitarist’s legacy. Now it’s Moltz who finds himself being sued by Experience Hendrix. Via the Arizona Daily Star:
Tuscon, AZ music store Rainbow Guitars has come to possess a very special item: a Black Widow guitar, an example of the only guitar model ever offered by the Acoustic Control Corporation, a company far better known for amps. This one was a rare left-handed model, and to ice that cake, it was once owned by Jimi Hendrix.
The alleged provenance is this: the guitar was given by Hendrix to his adopted sister Janie, who married Earth, Wind and Fire/Commodores guitarist Sheldon Reynolds. Hendrix either gave Reynolds the instrument, or he obtained it in their divorce settlement (this is unclear and online sources differ). Reynolds sold the guitar to one Brian Patterson—named by some sources as a “business partner” of Reynolds’—who in turn sold the instrument to Rainbow’s Harvey Moltz.
There’s a missing piece to that provenance claim—before selling the instrument to Moltz, Patterson endeavored to sell the instrument through Julien’s Auctions of Beverly Hills, CA, which provoked a lawsuit last year by Experience Hendrix, the business entity run by Hendrix’s family in an endeavor to keep control of the guitarist’s legacy. Now it’s Moltz who finds himself being sued by Experience Hendrix. Via the Arizona Daily Star:
Jimi Hendrix estate sues guitar shop for possession of a vintage Hendrix instrument
They are saying the one Hendrix had was branded "Acoustic"
Jimi Hendrix General Discussion Thread.
On the unusual Hendrix guitar front; Jimi playing an Acoustic (brand) Black Widow at TGG. The story is below:
![[IMG]](https://proxy.imagearchive.com/413/413989d3a6133e6ab2c964488027f04d "[IMG]")
Harvey Gerst on meeting Hendrix and Hendrix meeting the Black Widow:
I got a call on Saturday morning from Steve Marks, the president of Acoustic, saying, "Go down to TGG right now!" Why? "Jimi Hendrix just bought four of our amps and he's having trouble with some of the controls." I'd seen Jimi, but had never had the chance to talk to him. I showed him what he wanted to know about the amp. Then I said, "Here's another thing they can do. Let me borrow your guitar." We're both left-handed. I go to show him this feature, and his strings are like, medium gauge. I'm used to extra super slinky. And they're way up from the fret-board. I hand it back to him and say, "I can't play this. Let me go get mine." Mine was the Acoustic Black Widow, [with] twenty-four frets to the body, so you can play two full octaves. The heel doesn't start until after the 24th fret. One of the techniques Hendrix used was to shut the volume knob down, hit the chord and then bring up the volume. Your finger sat right there. And the toggle switch was angled to hit your strum. Neat guitar! I walk in, take it out and show him the neat little thing. He's not even listening. He's just staring at my guitar. It's left-handed. He's got nothing but right-handed Strats. When I finished showing him some things, he just held out his hands and said, "Gimme." He starts playing that thing, starts tape rolling, and I'm going, "Why do I even play guitar?" He finishes playing. I answered all his amp questions, and said, "I gotta go. Can I have my guitar back?" He says, "My guitar." I say, "No, that's my guitar." He starts laughing and says, "Not anymore! Now it's my guitar!" I say, "Hey look, I'm not a salesman. I play in a band, Sweetwater. What am I gonna use?" He points at the floor where four of his white Strats are laid out and says, "Help yourself!" Of course I wanted another Black Widow. I called Steve Marks and told him what happened. He said, "He wants it? Give it to him! Don't worry. You'll get one back!" I take one of Jimi's Strats to use. Like a dummy, I didn't have him sign it. I'm gonna play this guitar on the road, and I hate it! The action's up way too high. The **** knobs are getting under my arms because it's upside down. Every time I strum I hit the volume knob. Can't keep the **** thing in tune. I put super slinky strings on, and it made the bridge even worse, and now the action's even higher. I'm having to intonate this **** thing every night! I go through a set of strings in one playing. Finally, a month later my Black Widow comes in. I ran into Jimi in the airport in Oakland, and asked him "How are you liking the Black Widow?" He says, "I love it! It's my studio guitar." I said, "Well, I finally got my new Black Widow in, so here's your Strat back." He stared at me for a second, then said, "Huh?" I said, "Here's your Strat. I don't need it anymore." "Oh. Okay." It wasn't till a few years later I was telling this story that it hit me. He wasn't EXPECTING me to give the Strat back. He was GIVING it to me! And I, like an idiot, gave it back to him-one of the first four Strats he owned. What's it worth today?
Jimi Hendrix General Discussion Thread.
On the unusual Hendrix guitar front; Jimi playing an Acoustic (brand) Black Widow at TGG. The story is below:
Harvey Gerst on meeting Hendrix and Hendrix meeting the Black Widow:
I got a call on Saturday morning from Steve Marks, the president of Acoustic, saying, "Go down to TGG right now!" Why? "Jimi Hendrix just bought four of our amps and he's having trouble with some of the controls." I'd seen Jimi, but had never had the chance to talk to him. I showed him what he wanted to know about the amp. Then I said, "Here's another thing they can do. Let me borrow your guitar." We're both left-handed. I go to show him this feature, and his strings are like, medium gauge. I'm used to extra super slinky. And they're way up from the fret-board. I hand it back to him and say, "I can't play this. Let me go get mine." Mine was the Acoustic Black Widow, [with] twenty-four frets to the body, so you can play two full octaves. The heel doesn't start until after the 24th fret. One of the techniques Hendrix used was to shut the volume knob down, hit the chord and then bring up the volume. Your finger sat right there. And the toggle switch was angled to hit your strum. Neat guitar! I walk in, take it out and show him the neat little thing. He's not even listening. He's just staring at my guitar. It's left-handed. He's got nothing but right-handed Strats. When I finished showing him some things, he just held out his hands and said, "Gimme." He starts playing that thing, starts tape rolling, and I'm going, "Why do I even play guitar?" He finishes playing. I answered all his amp questions, and said, "I gotta go. Can I have my guitar back?" He says, "My guitar." I say, "No, that's my guitar." He starts laughing and says, "Not anymore! Now it's my guitar!" I say, "Hey look, I'm not a salesman. I play in a band, Sweetwater. What am I gonna use?" He points at the floor where four of his white Strats are laid out and says, "Help yourself!" Of course I wanted another Black Widow. I called Steve Marks and told him what happened. He said, "He wants it? Give it to him! Don't worry. You'll get one back!" I take one of Jimi's Strats to use. Like a dummy, I didn't have him sign it. I'm gonna play this guitar on the road, and I hate it! The action's up way too high. The **** knobs are getting under my arms because it's upside down. Every time I strum I hit the volume knob. Can't keep the **** thing in tune. I put super slinky strings on, and it made the bridge even worse, and now the action's even higher. I'm having to intonate this **** thing every night! I go through a set of strings in one playing. Finally, a month later my Black Widow comes in. I ran into Jimi in the airport in Oakland, and asked him "How are you liking the Black Widow?" He says, "I love it! It's my studio guitar." I said, "Well, I finally got my new Black Widow in, so here's your Strat back." He stared at me for a second, then said, "Huh?" I said, "Here's your Strat. I don't need it anymore." "Oh. Okay." It wasn't till a few years later I was telling this story that it hit me. He wasn't EXPECTING me to give the Strat back. He was GIVING it to me! And I, like an idiot, gave it back to him-one of the first four Strats he owned. What's it worth today?
Homer J. Simpson
Well-known member
The hearsay story goes something like this - after Bartell could not make the BW in sufficient numbers for Acoustic they had them made by Matsumoku. When some Acoustic guy saw the same design with the Aria label they complained, Mats promised to not do it again and told them they made only 2 more of them - so the guitar pictured would be a true rarity.
Whether or not that had to do with Acoustic wanting to return production to the US is unknown but Mr. Moseley got the deal after Matsumoku, recognizable by the typical curvy neck plate and apparently they made the last 200 of them.
How, when and where this Tokai fits in and who made it - the 3-bolt neck joint construction is how Bartell did it on their guitars so that's not a hint. The Aria has a different switch cover plate than the Mats Ampeg, which is looking the same also on the Tokai, so that's not a hint either and generally the guitars were meant to look like the original anyway, so the optical features are - as per usual - at best a weak indicator.
The Tokai is seemingly not meant to copy the guitar as much a the Aria and my gut feeling is that there may be less of them around than Arias! But if they were made by Matsumoku? Only dissecting both an Aria/Ampeg and that Tokai could tell us I guess.
Whether or not that had to do with Acoustic wanting to return production to the US is unknown but Mr. Moseley got the deal after Matsumoku, recognizable by the typical curvy neck plate and apparently they made the last 200 of them.
How, when and where this Tokai fits in and who made it - the 3-bolt neck joint construction is how Bartell did it on their guitars so that's not a hint. The Aria has a different switch cover plate than the Mats Ampeg, which is looking the same also on the Tokai, so that's not a hint either and generally the guitars were meant to look like the original anyway, so the optical features are - as per usual - at best a weak indicator.
The Tokai is seemingly not meant to copy the guitar as much a the Aria and my gut feeling is that there may be less of them around than Arias! But if they were made by Matsumoku? Only dissecting both an Aria/Ampeg and that Tokai could tell us I guess.
Friday 3 May 2013
Could this Tokai MlJ doublecut electric possibly be a Black Widow?
guitarz.blogspot.com:
This guitar, supposedly a Tokai doublecut, made in Japan, is currently listed on eBay by the dreaded music-outlet-shop of Cologne. As usual, this seller gives zero information and only one very small photo of a guitar which it is asking quite a large amount of money for.
I suspect that this may be one of the guitars that Tokai made for Acoustic Corporation / Bartell as it looks remarkably like the Paul Bartell designed Black Widow guitars, although perhaps the pickups have been swapped out for something a little more generic. The two-tone sunburst is unusual for a Black Widow which usually were only available finished in black (...if Henry Ford had made guitars!).
If anyone knows any more about this model, please leave a comment below.
This guitar is currently listed on eBay priced at $990.
Could this Tokai MlJ doublecut electric possibly be a Black Widow?
Could this Tokai MlJ doublecut electric possibly be a Black Widow?
guitarz.blogspot.com:
This guitar, supposedly a Tokai doublecut, made in Japan, is currently listed on eBay by the dreaded music-outlet-shop of Cologne. As usual, this seller gives zero information and only one very small photo of a guitar which it is asking quite a large amount of money for.
I suspect that this may be one of the guitars that Tokai made for Acoustic Corporation / Bartell as it looks remarkably like the Paul Bartell designed Black Widow guitars, although perhaps the pickups have been swapped out for something a little more generic. The two-tone sunburst is unusual for a Black Widow which usually were only available finished in black (...if Henry Ford had made guitars!).
If anyone knows any more about this model, please leave a comment below.
This guitar is currently listed on eBay priced at $990.
Could this Tokai MlJ doublecut electric possibly be a Black Widow?
badcuriousbear:
"FYI Matsumoko and Tokai Gakki factories both subcontracted some of the Black Widows is what I understand. Both companies took the liberty of branding a few for the Japanese market Matsumoko - Aria and Tokai Gakki - Tokai. The Aria guitars were straight out identical. The Tokai versions there were some in black and some natural and burst. The Tokai guitars the headstock, pickups, tuners and back pad were changed."
Black Widow Clone
"FYI Matsumoko and Tokai Gakki factories both subcontracted some of the Black Widows is what I understand. Both companies took the liberty of branding a few for the Japanese market Matsumoko - Aria and Tokai Gakki - Tokai. The Aria guitars were straight out identical. The Tokai versions there were some in black and some natural and burst. The Tokai guitars the headstock, pickups, tuners and back pad were changed."
Black Widow Clone
~1973 Acoustic / Mosrite Black Widow Black
Description
This is the USA Mosrite made variant of this guitar.
The reason I list it as a possible prototype, is the fact that it has no serial number in the end of the fretboard & never did.
When I lived in LV, I came across several early 70’s Mosrite variations that also had no s/n’s.
They were trying to figure out what direction to go guitar/wise, so there’s a lot of oddball stuff out there.
This Acoustic/Mosrite Black Widow is all original with the exception of 2 screws that hold down the bridge pickup.
Original Mosrite bridge & Mosrite pickups that were basically the same as the pickups used in the Dobro/Mobro models except they are humbucking.
Aluminum nut, Zero fret.
Guitar plays & sounds really good. It’s black, so it has its share of nicks/dings/swirls that don’t photograph very well. Not quite as clean as the pictures show, but still not bad.
Kind of odd as the neck measures .88 at the 1st & .82 at the 12th ! Gets skinnier as it goes up. Nut width is 1.62 . Weighs 8.3 lbs. Non original Hardshell case.
Description
This is the USA Mosrite made variant of this guitar.
The reason I list it as a possible prototype, is the fact that it has no serial number in the end of the fretboard & never did.
When I lived in LV, I came across several early 70’s Mosrite variations that also had no s/n’s.
They were trying to figure out what direction to go guitar/wise, so there’s a lot of oddball stuff out there.
This Acoustic/Mosrite Black Widow is all original with the exception of 2 screws that hold down the bridge pickup.
Original Mosrite bridge & Mosrite pickups that were basically the same as the pickups used in the Dobro/Mobro models except they are humbucking.
Aluminum nut, Zero fret.
Guitar plays & sounds really good. It’s black, so it has its share of nicks/dings/swirls that don’t photograph very well. Not quite as clean as the pictures show, but still not bad.
Kind of odd as the neck measures .88 at the 1st & .82 at the 12th ! Gets skinnier as it goes up. Nut width is 1.62 . Weighs 8.3 lbs. Non original Hardshell case.
Attachments
-
Screen Shot 2024-05-01 at 11.48.58 AM.png -
Screen Shot 2024-05-01 at 11.51.00 AM.png -
Screen Shot 2024-05-01 at 11.51.26 AM.png -
Screen Shot 2024-05-01 at 11.51.30 AM.png -
Screen Shot 2024-05-01 at 11.51.45 AM.png -
Screen Shot 2024-05-01 at 11.51.55 AM.png -
Screen Shot 2024-05-01 at 11.48.48 AM.png -
Screen Shot 2024-05-01 at 11.52.04 AM.png -
Screen Shot 2024-05-01 at 11.52.14 AM.png -
Screen Shot 2024-05-01 at 11.52.26 AM.png -
Screen Shot 2024-05-01 at 11.52.36 AM.png -
Screen Shot 2024-05-01 at 11.52.47 AM.png -
Screen Shot 2024-05-01 at 11.52.56 AM.png -
Screen Shot 2024-05-01 at 11.53.13 AM.png -
Screen Shot 2024-05-01 at 11.53.25 AM.png -
Screen Shot 2024-05-01 at 11.53.35 AM.png
Similar threads
